Update 4/20/2007 - There have been some significant modifications to the posts 2, 4, and 5 in this thread.

I had half a dozen titles for this thread in my head...

It's finally time to mount the Superlite wheels I bought in June 06. Mike Z was given a second chance offer from ebay when the auction didn't make reserve. He offered them up and I grabbed it. I bought them significantly cheaper than Pack Racing currently offers them for on their website. So it was worth it. Here's the original thread There were many questions (and even a little mis-information) in that thread. I'll answer quite a few here since I now have the wheels have tires mounted on them and I'm about to use them.

BTW - 914world member Nick Mironov has a thread about his Superlite wheels. Nick's superlite wheel thread . Nick, you want to read this thread and possibly talk to Pack Racing about a set of inserts with a proper conical lug bolt/nut seat.


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I thought I was getting 2 wheels with 25mm+ offset and 2 wheels with 35mm+ offset. There was a little communication trouble because I was communicating to Pack Racing via Mike Z since it was he who received the second chance offer when the wheel didn't make reserve on ebay. Looking at the wheels, one of them is stamped 12p or 12mm+ offset and the other three are stamped 25p. And it would appear that these were all stamped 12p at one time and stamped over with 25p. Regardless, I measured them all and they are all 25mm+ offset.

I never doubted Herr Mueller as he has done a lot of work with non-factory wheels on 914s, but I now can confirm [/size]what Mike has always said. As has pointed out in the past, 35mm would be a offset for a 914 to use a 205 tire. Seeing is believing!

At this point I'll note that Pack Racing doesn't seem to offer a 15x7 wheel with a 35mm+ offset. They have 16x7's in 35mm+ offset but not 15's.


Tires...

I've now gone from running the fattest tire you can squeeze on a factory Fuchs wheel to the skinniest tire you can fit on a 7" rim.

I measured a few 205/50VR15 tires and needless to say they are all different.

• Yokohama EVS ES100 overall width is 8.2"
• Falken Azenis overall width are 7.875"
• Cheapo Nankang ex-500 overall width are 7.75"
• BFG G-force Sport overall width are 8.5625" These things are FAT!

The BFG G-force Sport are the fattest 205/50VR15 street tires I've ever seen.

I finally ordered 195/55VR15 in the BFG G-force Sport because the thread width and overall width are still as wide or wider than many other 205/50 tires. It looks like they will just barely work out. I have about 1/16" clearance on the outside and 3/4" on the inside. An extra 5mm positive offset from a 30mm+ offset wheel like the factory Fuchs would center it almost perfectly. Or a 35+mm offset wheel like Superlite's 16" could at least utilize a 5mm spacer to achieve optimal clearance on both sides.

There may be a tiny bit of fender rolling in my immediate future.

let me interject a little. offset is a pretty useless number, as it varies by width....

Backspacing is constant. backspacing is from the inner lip of the wheel to the mounting face. on a 914, you want between 112-120mm backspacing.
every fuch wheel has almost the same backspacing even though the width changes. pretty cool.

so if you know the max back spacing you can run on your car (before wheel hits inner fender well) You can then pick a custom wheel to fit your car in ANY width you would like.

just easier to calculate IMO,


those look so sick on your car gint!

Now, this is a piece of info that anyone wishing to order Superlite wheels for a 914 needs to be aware of. Be certain that you tell them that you are purchasing wheels for us on a Porsche 914, (and provided your car is a stock configuration) it uses 14x15mm lug bolts, a 4x130 bolt circle and the hubs are not hubcentric. This should be enough information for them to know what type of insert to install in the wheels prior to shipment. I believe they have not yet supplied many of these wheels for a 914, so they are working out some kinks.

On to the details...

Apparently, Pack Racing modifies these wheels and adds inserts into the mounting holes to provide the correct size lug bolt/stud hole and a conical seat. The bolt hole is 17mm, so a 14x1.5 lug bolt or stud will float in the hole. And since these wheels are lugcentric, there is no way without these inserts (or a reasonable substitute) to locate or center the wheel.

I'll spare you the long story, but with the help of Terry from Pack Racing, we figured out that these wheels had shipped without the inserts. I'm going to either get a set of these inserts from Terry or make some of my own. I haven't really decided yet. If P.R. will send me the inserts for free I'll liekly go ahead and get a full set. I'll update this thread when that's been determined.




The lug bolt/nut mating surface as supplied from the manufacturer is flat.


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Close up


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Insert rear view


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Insert front view


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Actually, I disagree. Offset in it's simplest form is the distance from the wheel's centerline to the hub mating surface regardless of the wheel's width. And I like to have all of the numbers. I have no issue with calculating the offset in order to know what I'm dealing with. But that's just me...
Details:

Factory 5.5" 4x130 Fuchs wheel

• Overall wheel width - 6.250"
• Wheel width (between the inner beads) 5.5"
• Backspace 4.6875"
• Offset 1.5625"+ (39.6mm)

Performance Superlite 15x7 4x130 wheel

• Overall width 8"
• Wheel width (between the inner beads) 7"
• Backspace 5"
• Offset 1"+ (25.4mm)

Edit:
I cheesed the Fuchs measurements. They have been corrected 3/28/07. Factory 4 lug (4x130 bolt pattern) Fuchs wheel has an positive offset of 39.6mm.


Good information about wheel backspace and offset from Yokohama's web site




Here's a drawing from Fikse that I especially like.

Hoosiers are 8.7" across!

There's one in every crowd!

I'll modify that bit of text. Street tires...


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Hmm My Hoosiers are 11" across. with a tread compound of 25.

and with 4.5" of backspace they Just freaking barely rub the inner fenderwell and I can nearly get my pinky finger between the outer flared fender lip and tire.

More tires in 195-55-15 than you would think;
nice wheels, pretty green car

How much do these "superlite" wheels weigh??? They look gud! OK just looked it up.
they weigh about 18.9 lbs! Not exactly super lite.

vcb

Weight wasn't a major factor for me. This is a street car. I just wanted something different and these wheels certainly provide that!

I really like those!! so what is the proper wheel size ( bolt spacing ... back spacing , offset... 15x ?? ) for a 914 then ?! I have 4 lug fuchs and would like a direct replacement for them and so could I swap my 195-50-15 's to them... or another size that would work well with the tires I already

Mine are 15x7 25mm+ offset.

IMHO, In a 15" wheel your best option is the 15x6 in 24mm+ offset or the 15x7 in 25mm+ offset. Ideally, the best Superlite wheel for a narrow body 914 would probably be the 16x7 35+ offset.

Pack Racing Superlite page

good info about backspacing and offset here

...so those 15" opions I would be able to direct swap my current 195/50/15's?


what tire size would be needed for the 16x7 to get them to fit .....

I have never bought aftermarket wheels for the car .. I guess I will pull the newbie role on this one and ask straight out .. what is the best set up wheel /tire size and possible spacer for these for use on a narrow body teener........ and which lug bolts would be required for those set ups

... sorry but I really am not wanting to get a tire rub blow out or have the wrong size blots and loose a wheel while cruising along

if you are ordering custom wheels... why use a spacer? get em to fit without a spacer!

fuchs 7" wheels have a 23mm offset. the 25mm offset gint used got them to sit 2mm more inward...

They aren't *that* custom Aaron. They only have a few sizes and they don't offer a 15" in 30 or 35 offset.

preaching to the choir.... i KNOW that. did you require a spacer? nope. use a 23mm or your 25mm if thats all they make it in.

im advocating doing the homework and research (find out what your camber is and how far inboard you can go to dictate offset and backspacing...)

arron if you are trying to make me do my " homework " then say so .. but I already know that I am lacking in that area knowlage wise and that is why I asked ... not to pawn off on the folks that post here . yea I took the short cut to get to the best set up as a starting point and freely admitted to my taking that short cut .

gint thanks for the info

not what i meant. i believe all the info was is in this thread. 7" wheels that fit the fenders.....

not all 7" wheels will fit... thats why i asked you to come back with a camber number... as that neg camber will make the wheel clear the outside fender lip but get into the inner fender dictating rim width, a flare, or a camber change.

I am not real sure how to find camber ... I took it to the shop of a guy the has a good reputation setting up P-cars for racing ..... mainly he was the only guy around that could get a car that sits as low as mine on the rack, he asked me what I was using the car for .. I said sprited driving no racing and better tire wear .. he did the rest.

I am running koni yellows and 140# springs , if that says anything

he told me he setup pretty close to stock ... just getting an idea of what I would need

here are my 15 x 8 on yoko advanta r 032 soft compound for the track

i got the same ADVAN A032R's in harder compound john. mine have to go on 8" bbs or 8" fuchs....

your wheels look sick

That was one of the reasons I wanted to do this thread.

• I wanted to provide some information to folks insterested in Superlite wheels
• There is a lot of mis-information and arguement about methods for determining backspace and offset.
• I searched this site for a long time looking for the offset of a 4x130 Fuchs wheel and could not find it.

I have made a good deal of edits to my first few posts. They are as follows:

• I moved the original content from post #4 to post #2.
• I added information regarding Pack Racing's lub bolt/nut inserts into post #4
• I corrected my Fuchs offset measurements.
  • I gave Herr Mueller credit for 35mm postive offset after I fixed my Fuchs measurements.
• I added some wheel backspace and offset information and a diagram from Yokohama's site and also a Fikse diagram to post #5

I actually work with Barry the owner of Pack Racing with several machine modified wheels to get the back spacing,lug pattern and offset correct on the Superlite Wheels on both the 16lb. Track Wheel and 22lb. street wheels.

Before the mfg. Performance started production on the Porsche version of the wheel Barry had made several trip to Austalia were Performance factory is located to ensure they would work on 914 & 911's.

Barry is a great guy to work with , the wheel are a great value at twice the price.

I've had nothing but good experiences with Pack Racing to this point. Gret folks and very helpful. Hopefully this information will help them understand the idoiosyncracies of the 914 with regard to fitment of Superlite wheels. That's one of my other goals in this project.

I talked with Terry from Pack Racing Friday. Even though I bought these as basically used wheels, he is sending me a set of inserts for the cost of shipping. And the 914 fitment issues as outlined in this thread.

Pack Racing is a great place to do business with IMO.

I'm finally getting around to installing these inserts today. I received them from Pack Racing 3 weeks or so ago, but the car falling on my face slowed my progress.

I've searched all over town for 14x1.5mm lug bolts to no avail. So this morning I ordered a set of conical seat bolts from Euro Sport Accessories. I also ordered 1 ball seat 40mm 14x1.5x40mm lug bolt to check if these are the proper ball seat for a Fuchs alloy wheel. I'll let you all kow when they get here if it is or not. They should all be here by the end of next week or the Monday following.

Dammit I can't win!

So I took the wheels/tires to the Big O Tire shop where I bought the tires originally to have the tires dismounted so I could drill the Superlight wheels for the inserts. Got the wheels all drilled, sent an email to the local gang looking for a shop press to install them (since my press is at Kevin's). Turns out the tire shop has a press and will let me use it. So I go back down there and start pressing inserts into wheels. As I finish each wheel, they are mounting and rebalancing tires on them. Everything's goin great, I'm on the last insert on the last wheel...

*CRACK*!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I put one crank too much on the press and the damn wheel cracked!

I ordered a $175 replacement. That puts my total investment into these things at $560. Still a deal considering they cost $175 each for these wheels new. This cracked wheel will look great on the garage wall next to my "labor of love" polished Fuchs wheel.

The wheel and the lug bolts should all be here before next weekend. I might get these wheels on the zambeziteen yet!


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Those are press in inserts to convert mag/flat seat to cone seat?
I had to machine my wheels to cone seat with a cone bit in a drill press due to lack of availability of the proper size mag/flat seat lug bolts. Lots of alloy material in there so I was OK to drill. Lots of mag seat LUG NUTS if you go to studs (I will if I ever buy "race only" wheels/tires).

Those wheels will be worth the work, they look awesome.

Yes. Pack Racing normally installs these inserts, but since I bought these wheels used they somehow didn't get them installed originally.

I'm still only at $560 for the set. That's not much more than a set of Fuchs and it's a unique wheel. I'm looking forward to finallly getting them on the car.

Interesting info...
Does anyone know if Mini Lite still sells these wheels?
15" x 6.5" and same offset as the Fuchs 2.0... weighed maybe 16 lbs.
Michelin 195/60's fit perfectly with no fender mods...
Could have gone to 205's in some brands, w/o interference...
Mini Lite sold the correct lug bolts, with a thrust washer, to fit the flat holes...
Seems like they used to be about $155 each, but everything has gone up lately...Click to view attachment

Gint, Thanks for the lesson; Good Stuff !

It's been a long road...

My $360 deal on Superlight wheels ended up costing $900 by the time it was all said and done. If I hadn't broken that one wheel, I still could have come in under the $750 shipped cost of a set of new wheels from Superlight.

But, these are now custom 30mm offset wheels. My new bolts are even long enough with these wheels for some spacers in the front. I may still add them. We'll see...

Pictures came out pretty crappy. The clouds (and work) rolled in before I could get some decent shots.


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That car looks faster already...........

What kind of centercaps are you going to use?

Those look fantastic!

Ferg

The best classic look in an aftermarket wheel.
CCLIN914NATION

Dunno...

The caps that came with the wheels are tall and fugly chrome plastic units.

I talked to Trudesign Wheels about making caps (I was thinking Fuchs caps also ) and he poopoo'd that right away. He's been burnt too many times by people wanting caps made (for 5 lug Fuchs even) and then getting blown off when the supposed buyer finds out what a one off set will cost. I proposed the idea of doing quantities and he wasn't thrilled about that either.

I need to find a machine shop I can work with. Actually a coworker has an old lathe in his garage. I may talk to him about it.

Nice lookin' wheels! I didn't think I liked them too much until seeing them in this thread. Thanks for the diagrams too - now I have a much better understanding of what 'offset' means.

I see that you recommend the 16x7 35+ offset for the narrow teeners and I'm inclined to agree with you. Do you or anyone else here have any suggestions for tires that would provide a good fit without having to roll any fenders?

Thanks

G-man,I'm behind you!

I'm a hoping we have the same size dia. caps.
I want to dress up my ATS's.

I'll even pitch in to run productions.

You can definitely fit a 205 section width tire on a 7" rim. People put 205's on Fuchs 5.5" wide rims all the time. On a Superlight 16X7" with 35mm offset, you *may* even be able to install a 215 and have it fit on a narrow body (no flares) 914. Whether they will fit or not will depend on different factors.

• The individual 914 - The difference in wheel well width from 914 to 914 varies. For that matter, the width usually varies between the left and right wheel wells on almost every 914.
• The tire - Tire widths vary greatly. I indicated that in this thread. The BFG g-force Sport are a very wide tire. Wider than most other brands in the same size and wider than the manufacturer's web site indicates. That's also the case with most tires and their manufacturer's publicly listed specifications. So there listings are a starting point, but don't assume they're accurate.

You're best bet is to find a friendly tire shop that will work with you. Most of them will try a couple of size tires so you can see which tire will fit well. They want to sell you tires, make them work a little for it. In my experience they will usually be more than happy to do it.

Them there are perdy.

Looks good Gint!

My wheels still rock, too bad they really dont fit.